Dear Les:
Thank you for your comments and the book on the Trinity. You’re right, I do think some commentary could be added to the papers I gave you about the traditions of men. I too enjoyed the ride to the Stadium and I hope we meet again someday.
When I hear or read unfamiliar statements about the Bible, my favorite question is,
Where is that in the Bible? I ask that question a lot now because Jesus warned us about
the traditions of menMk 7:6 that cancel out and nullify The Word of GodRev 19:13. I also make it a habit to question the reasoning behind how someone reached a conclusion. The Word of God exhorts us to “know them which labor among you” and “to try the spirits.”
1 Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labor among you...
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God...
As I read a book these days, any book, these questions are on my heart. Depending on the topic, the level of tolerance and the measure of grace changes. When someone continually makes statements about scripture that cannot be verified by scripture, or is untrue, I become suspicious. I start to shake my head and think: Is this person really looking for the truth or just trying to prove a point? How much is really clear? How many lies do we have to put up with before we shout no more, that’s enough?
It’s one thing to disagree and explain why they believe what they believe.
But to be continually inaccurate in statements about the bible causes me to wonder about the relationship this person has with the real Truth, Jesus. The question could be; Is God sending them this delusion that they should believe a lie? I think about that for myself.
1Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,...
I’m willing to look at your ideas that I haven’t really studied before. I thank God for this time since I met you because I was really challenged in my beliefs and my ability to explain what I believe. It caused me to go to The word of God and “In His Presence is fullness of Joy.”
In the book you sent about the trinity, look at the page after the table of contents.
The line that says, “Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God.“
You have to realize, this statement is going to prejudice me right from the start. Not because I do believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh but because the statement “Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God“is not accurate.
You can say that I’m misinterpreting scripture, or the original Greek is suspect, or ask, have you looked at these scriptures that seem to contradict what your saying? But to say that “Nowhere does the NT identify Jesus with God,” is an incorrect statement.
I hope you don’t have that quote on your web site.
If I had a web site I would have the same quote and add nothing.
“ Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God.“ Your site?
“ Now here does the New Testament identify Jesus with God “ My site.
*In the NT it says God was manifest in the flesh. - Jesus - 1 Tim 3:16
*In John, God, the Word was God, was made flesh - Jesus - Jn 1:1+Rev 19:13
*Jesus is called the true God. - 1 John 5:20
*Jesus, “the son”, is called God. - Hebrews 1:8
*Jesus is called Emmanuel - God With Us. - Matthew 1:23
*Jesus is called “My Lord and my God” by Thomas. - John 20:28
*Jesus is called the great God and our Savior by Paul. - Titus 2:13
*Jesus is called “God my Savior” By Mary, His mother - Luke 1:46
*In Revelations, Jesus calls himself the Almighty. ( The all ruling God )
Revelations 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [ Jesus speaking ]
Almighty - 3841 pantokrator {pan-tok-rat'-ore} KJV - Almighty 9 x’s, omnipotent 1x) Computer - 1) he who holds sway over all things 2) the ruler of all 3) almighty: God
Strongs - The all ruling, God (as absolute and universal sovereign): omnipotent.
Vines - Ruler of all, used of God only.
So, from my research, ( now, my research could be faulty and God forbid, I could even be wrong, ) I see many many places where the NT Identifies Jesus with God.
Identify - Websters Dictionary - 1. To make identical. 2. To consider or treat as the same.
Now, you might have an explanation for each time I think the NT identifies Jesus with God. But to say that “ Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God.“ is a false statement and causes me to doubt this man. While browsing I’ve already noticed two other statements that I have a major accuracy problem with. I even wonder why you think this is a good book to send to help me on my journey to know the truth.
Have you taken the time to check out this book to see if what it says is true?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
The next time you’re out this way, we’ll go to the train station you came in on and take a survey. We’ll let some people read John 20:26-29 and ask them if the NT and Thomas identifies Jesus with God.
John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them:
[then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, my Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:
blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
When Thomas calls Jesus Lord and God, I see Thomas identifying Jesus with God.
I see Jesus accepting He is called God and not correcting. Jesus even goes further.
He praises those who haven’t seen and still believe that He is our Lord and our God.
We’ll also ask them to read Titus. It’s short and Paul talks a lot about our Savior.
Titus 1:3 ...God our Savior;
Titus 1:4 ...the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.
Titus 2:10 ...God our Savior
Titus 2:13 ...great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
Titus 3:4 ...God our Savior
Titus 3:6 ...Jesus Christ our Savior;
Also, in the book of Romans Paul talks about the Gospel that he preached.
Romans 1:1 ... the gospel of God,
Romans 1:9 the gospel of his Son,
Romans 1:15 ... the gospel. ( Which gospel, the gospel of God or the gospel of Christ? )
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: ...
Romans 10:15 ... the gospel of peace, ... ( Which gospel is this one, of God or of Christ? )
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. ( Which gospel, of God or of Christ? )
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, ( Which gospel? )
Romans 15:16 ... the gospel of God,
Romans 15:19 ... I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Romans 15:29 ... the gospel of Christ.
Once again Les, my research could be questionable and God forbid, even my reasoning. But, in Titus and Romans, I see that Paul is simply identifying Jesus with God.
I could be misreading that, although I don’t think so. Paul is not confused or sloppy and we don’t have two Saviors or two Gospels. Paul is just identifying Jesus with God.
The NT says that Jesus is our savior and in the OT God calls Himself our savior.
Of course when God calls Himself “savior” God adds, “beside me there is no savior.”
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no savior.
Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God (El) ... O God (Elohiym) of Israel, the Savior.
Hosea 13:4 I am the LORD thy God (Elohiym)...for there is no savior beside me.
Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior. ( Mary speaking about Jesus )
Luke 2:11 ...unto you is born this day ... a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
2Timothy 1:10 ...made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ,...
2Peter 2:20 ... through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
You see, in my research, “The OT and NT is consistently identifying Jesus with God.”
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government
shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,
The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
In Isaiah 9:6, most would say, Jesus is the Prince of Peace, and Jesus is the Son. Why is there a problem calling Jesus, the mighty God? Why do you eliminate the deity of Jesus Christ? Why would you not - honor the Son as you honor the Father?
John 5:23 That all men should honour* the Son, even as they honour* the Father.
He that honoureth* not the Son honoureth* not the Father... ( *to revere, venerate )
Jesus also said some hard words to the religious leaders Les. He said, you don’t know me and you don’t know my Father. If you knew me you would know my Father. I take that to mean, when you know Jesus as God, only then can you know God as the Father.
John 8:19 ...Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father:
if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Les, truth and accuracy are important. Lord, we pray that the Spirit of Truth would prevail.
Here’s another OT=NT question for you. Who calls himself the First and the Last?
In Isaiah 44:6 Les we see “The Lord” is speaking and the word for Lord here is Jehovah.
On my computer the definition for Jehovah is “the existing one.”
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
Here’s something interesting that I noticed in this verse. Read that again Les and this time notice that the word “the Lord” [ Jehovah = the existing one] is used twice.
The first time it’s, [ Jehovah = the existing one ] the Lord the King of Israel.
and His redeemer To me Les this is a very significant “and”
because now it is speaking of more than “one” Jehovah = the existing one.
And His redeemer [ Jehovah = the existing one ] - the Lord of Hosts.
The Lord the King of Israel and his redeemer the Lord of hosts are both speaking.
They are both saying I am the first and I am the last.
You have to admit Les this is a very interesting and revealing scene.
Also, Paul the apostle recognized that Jesus is before all things.
Colossians 1:17 And he (Jesus) is before all things, and by him all things consist.
OT Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
NT Revelations 1:17 ... Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelations 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord ...
Revelations 1:11 (Jesus) I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Revelations 2:8 ...These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
OT “The Lord ”and his redeemer “ the Lord” say, “I am the First and I am the Last.”
Indicating that “Jehovah” and his redeemer “Jehovah” is before all things.
NT “The Lord Jesus” says, “I am the First and the Last.”
Indicating that Jesus is before all things and identifying Himself with Jehovah.
Once again Les, “The OT and NT is consistently identifying Jesus with God.”
Peace and wisdom be with you in your search for truth.
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